Date: Fri, 19 Feb 93 05:11:05 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #199 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 19 Feb 93 Volume 16 : Issue 199 Today's Topics: "The Universe of MOTION" (book review) *advocate* anonymous postings (2 msgs) Biosphere 2 S.A.C. Funny name for HST Henry Spencer stamps (2 msgs) Micro-management Organics on Saturn, Jupiter, Titan Pictures of Mars wanted SETI and Virtual Reality space-related position at MS^3, San Diego CA space news from Jan 4 AW&ST SSF Petition (freedom fighters, etc.) System abuse, and other hobbies Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Feb 93 16:44:11 -0600 From: mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu Subject: "The Universe of MOTION" (book review) Newsgroups: sci.space (Book Review): "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION", by Dewey B. Larson, 1984, North Pacific Publishers, Portland, Oregon, 456 pages, indexed, hardcover. "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION" contains FINAL SOLUTIONS to most ALL astrophysical mysteries. This book is Volume III of a revised and enlarged edition of "THE STRUCTURE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE", 1959. Volume I is "NOTHING BUT MOTION" (1979), and Volume II is "THE BASIC PROPERTIES OF MATTER" (1988). Most books and journal articles on the subject of astrophysics are bristling with integrals, partial differentials, and other FANCY MATHEMATICS. In this book, by contrast, mathematics is conspicuous by its absence, except for some relatively simple formulas imbedded in the text. Larson emphasizes CONCEPTS and declares that mathematical agreement with a theory does NOT guarantee its conceptual validity. Dewey B. Larson was a retired engineer with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Engineering Science from Oregon State University. He developed the Theory described in his books while trying to find a way to MATHEMATICALLY CALCULATE the properties of chemical compounds based ONLY on the elements they contain. "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION" describes the astrophysical portions of Larson's CONSISTENT, INTEGRATED, COMPREHENSIVE, GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, a kind of "grand unified field theory" that orthodox physicists and astro-physicists CLAIM to be looking for. It is built on two postulates about the physical and mathematical nature of space and time: (1) The physical universe is composed ENTIRELY of ONE component, MOTION, existing in THREE dimensions, in DISCRETE units, and with two RECIPROCAL aspects, SPACE and TIME. (2) The physical universe conforms to the relations of ORDINARY COMMUTATIVE mathematics, its primary magnitudes are ABSOLUTE, and its geometry is EUCLIDEAN. From these two postulates, Larson was able to build a COMPLETE theoretical universe, from photons and subatomic particles to the giant elliptical galaxies, by combining the concept of INWARD AND OUTWARD SCALAR MOTIONS with translational, vibrational, rotational, and rotational- vibrational motions. At each step in the development, he was able to match parts of his theoretical universe with corresponding parts in the real physical universe, including EVEN THINGS NOT YET DISCOVERED. For example, in his 1959 book, he first predicted the existence of EXPLODING GALAXIES, several years BEFORE astronomers started finding them. They are a NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of his comprehensive Theory. And when quasars were discovered, he had a related explanation ready for those also. As a result of his theory, which he called "THE RECIPROCAL SYSTEM", Larson TOTALLY REJECTED many of the sacred doctrines of orthodox physicists and astrophysicists, including black holes, neutron stars, degenerate matter, quantum wave mechanics (as applied to atomic structure), "nuclear" physics, general relativity, relativistic mass increases, relativistic Doppler shifts, nuclear fusion in stars, and the big bang, all of which he considered to be nothing more than MATHEMATICAL FANTASIES. He was very critical of the AD HOC assumptions, uncertainty principles, solutions in principle, "no other way" declarations, etc., used to maintain them. "THE UNIVERSE OF MOTION" is divided into 31 chapters. It begins with a description of how galaxies are built from the gravitational attraction between globular star clusters which are formed from intergalactic gas and dust clouds that accumulate from the decay products of cosmic rays coming in from the ANTI-MATTER HALF of the physical universe. (Galaxy formation from the MYTHICAL "big bang" is a big mystery to orthodox astronomers.) He then goes on to describe life cycles of stars and how binary and multiple star systems and solar systems result from Type I supernova explosions of SINGLE stars. Several chapters are devoted to quasars which, according to Larson, are densely-packed clusters of stars that have been ejected from the central bulges of exploding galaxies and are actually traveling FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT (although most of that speed is AWAY FROM US IN TIME). Astronomers and astrophysicists who run up against observations that contradict their theories would find Larson's explanations quite valuable if considered with an OPEN MIND. For example, they used to believe that GAMMA RAY BURSTS originated from pulsars, which exist primarily in the plane or central bulge of our galaxy. But the new gamma ray telescope in earth orbit observed that the bursts come from ALL DIRECTIONS UNIFORMLY and do NOT correspond with any visible objects, (except for a few cases of directional coincidence). Larson's explanation is that the gamma ray bursts originate from SUPERNOVA EXPLOSIONS in the ANTI-MATTER HALF of the physical universe, which Larson calls the "cosmic sector". Because the anti-matter universe exists in a RECIPROCAL RELATION to our material universe, with the speed of light as the BOUNDARY between them, and has THREE dimensions of time and ONLY ONE dimension of space, the bursts can pop into our material universe ANYWHERE seemingly at random. Larson heavily quotes or paraphrases statements from books, journal articles, and leading physicists and astronomers. In this book, 351 of them are superscripted with numbers identifying entries in the reference list at the end of the book. For example, a quote from the book "Astronomy: The Cosmic Journey", by William K. Hartmann, says, "Our hopes of understanding all stars would brighten if we could explain exactly how binary and multiple stars form.... Unfortunately we cannot." Larson's book contains LOGICAL CONSISTENT EXPLANATIONS of such mysteries that are WORTHY OF SERIOUS CONSIDERATION by ALL physicists, astronomers, and astrophysicists. UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Book Review is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 93 00:07:58 GMT From: Chris Royle Subject: *advocate* anonymous postings Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.privacy,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.crypt rmah@panix.com (Robert Mah) writes: > My view is that anonymous postings will allow for an excess of > name-calling and other non-civil behaviour. Call me a pesemist. Pesemist. There. CHrIs. +--+ CHrIs Royle, Managing Director - the man that kicks some serious doo-doo | | Email : s0otl@exnet.co.uk --- Soon to be: c@royle.org (01/03/1993) +--+ Phone : Company voice and fax - +44 532 661536 >> PC Hardware << | SnailMail : 4 Moorland Ings LEEDS LS17 6JX UK >> Consultancy << +--- Objectronix Ltd, Leeds UK: Windows code/Cheap PCs/Other related services ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 22:55:23 GMT From: Pete Hardie Subject: *advocate* anonymous postings Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.privacy,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.crypt In article <1993Feb16.191517.12896@fuug.fi> an8785@anon.penet.fi (8 February 1993) writes: >Now that we've seen that pseudonymous postings are not an >unmitigated evil by demonstrating their accountability and >responsibility, we need to go further and to *promote* >pseudonymous postings as a positive good. As others have posted, this is far from a generally accepted view. >This does not mean arguments would become less passionate, >but the passion is redirected from a defense of a self-image >to the defense of a *position.* Not the case. Numerous studies point to the INcrease of aggressive behavior when the target is anonymous. The less 'personal' the other side seems, the easier it is to treat it as wrong/bad/evil/stupid/etc. >Moreover, appeals based mainly on submission to badges >of authority, such as the posting site or the reputation >or power of the poster is muted. This removes another >constraint to Usenet readers using evidence of their own >sense coupled with conclusions derived from independent >thought with facts that can be gleaned from good postings. It also removes the useful tool of knowing when someone with valid and good experience speaks good advice. You would but everyone on the same footing and remove the signs of wisdom from those who demonstrate it. >True, a lot of sludge will be channeled by Anonymous. But >of far more importance will the occasional Copernican theory >(still censored in some areas until the early 19th C.) be able >to surface without intimidation or retribution. > >Anonymous postings demand a lot from the readership in >requiring skill to prune and select from a broader array of >responses; responses that may be incorrect, in poor taste or >just plain dumb. This burden of selection and analysis will >certainly increase as anonymous postings become the norm. Leaving aside the supposition about the expected normalcy of anon postings, I for one have enough trouble winnowing the wheat from the chaff when I have the use of personal IDs for assistance. There are many people on the net who have yet to present evidence of intelligent thought, and I'd just as soon not be required to page through their drivel just to read the good stuff. Until a content-based killfile (or keepfile) method is found, I want as much info as I can get about the identity of a poster to help me decide if I want to read more of their postings. -- Pete Hardie: phardie@nastar (voice) (404) 497-0101 Digital Transmission Systems, Inc., Duluth GA Member, DTS Dart Team | cat * | egrep -v "signature virus|infection" Position: Goalie | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 12:30:00 PST From: Taber@bio2.com Subject: Biosphere 2 S.A.C. Biosphere 2 update, February 18, 1993. The Biosphere 2 Scientific Advisory Committee has been dissolved. I have received many questions about the dissolution of the Biosphere 2 Science Advisory Committee (S.A.C.) so I will comment then post the press release that was made by Edward P. Bass, Chairman of the Board of S.B.V. and Dr. Thomas E. Lovejoy, Chairman of the S.A.C.. It is certainly a loss to the Biosphere 2 project not to have the S.A.C.. The management of Space Biospheres Ventures (S.B.V.) and the committee were unable to work together, making interaction between committee members and Biosphere 2 scientists frustrating. I have the highest respect for all the members of the committee and think dissolving the committee was appropriate given the circumstances. When the dust has settled there are many great lessons about how to conduct science as a part of a private business venture that has little or no government involvement. In future private space missions, a strong collaboration between the scientific community and business will greatly benefit both endeavors, but it is much more difficult than one might first imagine. I will expand on this theme at another time but very briefly: To set the tone of the situation, consider the immediate association when you think of a scientists opinion of big business and the reverse. As I see it, the relationship in a private/scientific space project can not be that of a paid consultant where the business can take the advice or leave it and ultimately the consultant does not care, it is also not that of a grant or contract for service from one to the other. The relationship between business and science in a non-government space project will involve reputations, carriers, scientific expertise, academic institutions and government scientific institutions. To work, this relationship will require a large amount of mutual trust and openness between people that have so often found themselves on opposite sides of the fence, creating a growing distrust especially with regard to environmental issues. While it is by no means impossible to overcome, the inevitable conflicts of interest must be dealt with before they occur. An over simplified example is that a business may need to protect some information as proprietary or feel that the companies reputation is as risk, while the science of the project requires an open dialogue or publication. This issue is not new, but quickly becomes surprisingly complex and is fundamentally different from that of a scientist hired by a company to do a job, it will require allot of exploration before this type of a joint venture can be undertaken. Here is the press release. *** BIOSPHERE 2 SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY COMMITTEE DISSOLVED February 15, 1993 - The Scientific Advisory Committee (S.A.C.) of Biosphere 2 has been dissolved; although some members of the committee will continue in their advisory role to the project. Members recommended the committee disband at this time because personality conflicts between some S.A.C. members and some members of the Space Biospheres Ventures (S.B.V.) team resulted in the inability of the committee to proceed in its current capacity. It's expected that a new science review process will be formed under the aegis of Biosphere 2's Director of Research, a new position which the committee recommended be created last July. The position is expected to be filled within the next six weeks following a lengthy professional search process. "Although the committee feels the scientific research of Biosphere 2 has made good progress, I and several members of the committee found the working relationship at times to be frustrating", said Dr. Thomas E. Lovejoy, Chairman of the S.A.C.. "I'd like to reiterate that the whole committee retains its enthusiasm for what Biosphere 2 can contribute to the field of closed system ecology." Edward P. Bass, Chairman of the Board of S.B.V., said several members of the committee have either submitted their letters of resignation or expressed their intention to do so in order to clear the slate for the new Director of Research.. "The crux of the matter is that the process proved to be unwieldy. The are inherent difficulties with an unpaid, volunteer committee, conducting scientific review of the sort that is customary in an academic or publicly-funded context, consulting to a multi-faceted private corporation whose research and development has commercial aspects," said Ed Bass. "I am very grateful for the hard work and tremendous assistance the S.A.C. has given over the last year. Important progress has been made, both in terms of the conduct of research at Biosphere 2 and the public's perception and understanding. For example, following the committee's recommendation in its' July report for import and export of scientific supplies and samples, new protocols have been put in place which greatly enhance the research underway. There have already been several papers published in scientific journals, and there are now more than 60 research projects including the first tightly monitored experiment with human nutrition on a nutrient-dense/calorie-restricted diet, and expanded research into oxygen dynamics within Biosphere 2." "I thank each member for their valuable contribution, and I look forward to continue working with them on this and other projects of mutual interest." *** That's the latest. Taber MacCallum Biosphere 2 crew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 01:44:15 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Funny name for HST Newsgroups: sci.space Tom (18084TM@msu.edu) wrote: : I just thought y'all might enjoy a little quip I got from my prof the : other day: : The class is 'Galaxies', and he was referring to the possibilities that : will exist with better resolution in IR. : He said "If they ever fix the Hobbled Space Telescope..." :-) At night, after I've taken out my contact lenses, if I see my wife in a state of undress, I'll wolf-whistle, leer appreciatively, and say "Hubble, Hubble." Or, if I have only one lens in, it's "Hubba, Hubble." I'll have to drop that gag after the repair mission. I hope. Oh, BTW, here's the latest official data on the HST repair mission: CONFIGURATION -ORB (FLT NO) OV-105(5) That's the fifth flight of Endeavour. -ET ET-61 That's the External Tank's serial number. -SRBs BI-063 The Solid Rocket Booster pair. -SSME SETTING 104/104% "104% of originally-rated thrust" -POSITION 1 TBD We haven't decided which engines we'll use. -POSITION 2 TBD -POSITION 3 TBD -SOFTWARE REL OI-22 The new software we'll use first on STS-57. -CRYOTANK SETS 5 Lots of O2, H2, N2. -MISC RQMTS RMS The "Canadarm" or Remote Manipulator System. P/L MANIFEST -PAYLOAD BAY HST SM-1, ICBC ICBC = IMAX Cargo Bay Camera, which first flew on STS-46 (the TSS mission). -MID-DECK IMAX The big, NOISY camera which eats film like crazy. OPERATIONS -PAD/MLP A/3 Launch pad 39A, Mobile Launch Platform 3 -INCLINATION 28.45 DEG -INSERTION ALT 318 NM -MECO TGT DIR INSERTION As opposed to the old-fashioned OMS-1/OMS-2. -TAL SITE BANJUL Transatlantic abort site. -FLT DURATION 9 + 2 DAYS Nine days nominal, plus two for contingencies. -CREW SIZE 7 INSTRUMENTATION None this flight. REMARKS None this flight. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "The earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind will not stay in the cradle forever." -- Konstantin Tsiolkvosky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 00:51:41 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Henry Spencer stamps Newsgroups: sci.space Tom (18084TM@msu.edu) wrote: : To be honest, I have no idea what Henry actually looks like, so if he was : on those stamps, I wouldn't know anyway :-) One of the interesting things of meeting net.people in person is how different they look from my pre-conceived notions. I picture Henry as a college professor in his forties, with slightly graying hair and smallish wire-rim glasses (used only for reading, of course). I have other mental pictures of the folk in sci.space.*, but I won't meet most of them. (I wonder what people think *I* look like.) I can't really justify the use of the government's computers for it, and I wouldn't want to uuencode them and post them to everybody, but does anybody have an anon-FTP repository where we can put some GIF's or JPEG images? I have a dandy one left from the time I tested a color scanner by scanning my NASA ID. The GIF is about 59 KB; its JPEG equivalent is about 15 KB. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is fun." -- John F. Kennedy, as [mis]quoted by Scott Brigham, scotbri@rosemount.com, in alt.folklore.urban ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 02:00:44 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Henry Spencer stamps Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb17.213901.142372@zeus.calpoly.edu> jgreen@zeus.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green) writes: >>To be honest, I have no idea what Henry actually looks like, so if he was >>on those stamps, I wouldn't know anyway :-) >He probably looks like Elvis. You mean that wasn't Elvis I saw yesterday? Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------118 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:09:19 EST From: Tom <18084TM@msu.edu> Subject: Micro-management >You may call building something which works for a reasonable sum >micromanagement; I call it Congress's job. Actually, Congess' job is writing laws that protect our rights. Spending money taken from us against our will is called 'violating citizens rights', or 'robbery', as long as there are those who don't support that taking and spending. If you take it as given that Congress must work this way, fair enough, just call it what it really is. -Tommy Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom McWilliams | 517-355-2178 (work) \\ Inhale to the Chief! 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu | 336-9591 (hm)\\ Zonker Harris in 1996! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 02:02:18 GMT From: gawne@stsci.edu Subject: Organics on Saturn, Jupiter, Titan Newsgroups: sci.space In article , 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: > Doesn't Jupiter also have organics floating around in it's atmosphere, > mostly methane, Yes, Jupiter has CH4 in its atmosphere. > which cause all the reddish/brown coloring? Well, the CH4 is clear. The dazzling white in the bands is, I recall, mostly frozen ammonia (NH3). As for the red/brown color of the belts it's likely caused by some complex organics, I don't think that anybody has conclusively identified the species. After checking just now with a real planetary atmospheres person who confirms what I said above, the identity of the reddish-brown stuff remains unknown. It's definitely not methane nor a simple methane based variant. -Bill Gawne, Space Telescope Science Institute "Forgive him, he is a barbarian, who thinks the customs of his tribe are the laws of the universe." - G. J. Caesar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 22:23:26 GMT From: Ed McCreary Subject: Pictures of Mars wanted Newsgroups: sci.space >>>>> On Sun, 14 Feb 1993 17:40:57 GMT, chenina@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Robert Chenina [Chemie]) said: RC> Hello Earth! RC> I'm looking for some pictures from the Viking mission. The pictures RC> are details obout the region called _Cydonia Mensae_ (approx. 40.9N, RC> 9.45W) and referenced as: RC> 35A72, 70A13, 673B56, 753A33. 673B56 is available as part of a mosaic, image MI45N012.IMG, on the Mars Mosaicked Digital Image Model CDROMs. The last time I checked, these were available on explorer.arc.nasa.gov. I was not able to find anything on 753A33. -- Ed McCreary ,__o edm@gocart.eng.hou.compaq.com _-\_<, "If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/'(*) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 02:13:11 GMT From: nathan wallace Subject: SETI and Virtual Reality Newsgroups: sci.space The event in question actually happened, but not "officially". According to a NOVA program on SETI, the gentleman who invented the famous equation to determine the probability of other intelligent life in the universe met once a month in a working group of similar-interest scientists. (I believe Carl Sagan was a member, but i can't for the life of me remember the name of the man who did the equation. I'm sure some other netter can...) At one of these meetings he handed out a simple message encoded arbitrarily to the other participants, and gave them something like six months to solve it. No one did. He used this to make the point that communication with ET's is *not* as simple as a "universal translator" might make it seem. ---- +----------------------------------------------+------------------------+ | | __ | | | / /\ | | Nathan F. Wallace | ______/ /_/___ | | email: wallacen@beethoven.cs.colostate.edu | / ____ ______ \ | +----------------------------------------------+ / /\__/ /\____|\/| | | | | |\/ / / / \|/ | | Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, and are | | || / /_/_____ | | not those of any other person, | | ||/_______ /\ | | organization, or supreme being. | | ||\______/ / / | | | | || / / / | +----------------------------------------------+ \ \_____/ /_/__/\ | | "War is the art of deception." | \_____ _______/| | | Sun Tzu | \___/ /\______|/ | | | \_\/ | | | | +----------------------------------------------+------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 01:33:02 GMT From: Mike Caplinger Subject: space-related position at MS^3, San Diego CA Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,misc.jobs.offered Malin Space Science Systems (MS^3) is seeking candidates for operations engineering positions for the Mars Observer Camera (MOC) project. MS^3 is responsible for design, implementation, and operation of the MOC Ground Data System, a custom, computer-aided mission planning, operations, and data archiving system to command and record the acquisition of several tens of thousands of photographs of the planet Mars at resolutions as high as 1.5 meters/pixel. Expected duties for these positions include preparing sequences for uplink to the spacecraft, retrieving and processing downlinked images, monitoring the health of the instrument, data archiving, and providing support to the MOC science team. Candidates should have two to five years of post-baccalaureate experience in a scientific or technical position, programming ability, and experience with UNIX and UNIX-based workstations. Applicants should send a resume, including three references, and a salary history by April 15, 1993, to: Ms Laura Ravine, Operations Supervisor, Malin Space Science Systems, 3535 General Atomics Court, Suite 250, San Diego, CA 92121. E-MAIL APPLICATIONS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED. For information, call (619) 552-6980 or send e-mail to ldr@msss.com (Internet.) Do not send e-mail to the poster of this message. Malin Space Science Systems, a small, California-based corporation specializing in spacecraft imaging systems, is an equal-opportunity employer. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 1993 11:13 CST From: University Space Society Subject: space news from Jan 4 AW&ST Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes... >In article pgf@srl01.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes: >>>... However, Lockheed does its own satellite testing >>>horizontally, and has experience with what it calls "ship and shoot"... >> >>How did Lockheed get this experience? > >This was not made clear. Military programs are the obvious possibility. Lockheed has been the prime contractor of all of the HOE (Homing Overlay Experiments) as well as ERIS the HOE successor. Both of these missions us the Minuteman I booster in various configurations as the launch vehicle. The also have been involved in similiar missions with other surplus military hardware. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville PS Hey Henry, MacDougal in Heavens and the Earth states that the F1 was a Marshall project. This squares with what I know from Dannenberg and others around here who worked on the engine. Where did your information come from? ------------------------------ Date: 17 Feb 1993 11:07 CST From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: SSF Petition (freedom fighters, etc.) Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space In article , n4hy@growler.UUCP (Bob McGwier) writes... > >And people I know are actually belivers in Clinton's ability to sell his >package. SSF is but one of the things that Clinton may or may not want >to cut back on and already the grassroots organizations, and aerospace >industry lobbyist are lining up. I have no hopes that in a years time the >deficit will be one dollar smaller if things like SSF, which to my mind >should NOT be in the budget when you have a $350 billion deficit looming, >cannot be cut. > >Bob >-- If Mr. Clinton would forgo the his usless jobs program that will not bring one dollar of return for the American economy (31 billion dollars) then we could save a great deal of the deficit. At 8% interest that adds another 2.8 billion dollars to the deficit each year just to finance, which by the way is more than Nasa wants to finish SSF. You figure it out why this logic works in Washington. If you really want to cut the dificit then begin to trim the social programs that were to have brought us the great society but have instead have given us paradises like Cabri Green and others like it around the country. A little realism and a little thought go much farther than empty words and public works programs. I have really had a lot of fun re-reading the book "The Heavens and the Earth" by Walter MacDougal. Eisenhower and Medaris were right and Mr. Clinton, who I think may have some promise to do some good has been saddled with the failed governmental philosophy's of Rostow and others of the 60's that are directly responsible for the deficit of today. Followups to Alt.politics.space Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 17:48:34 EST From: Tom <18084TM@msu.edu> Subject: System abuse, and other hobbies >...such as once first year undergrad at my uni who sent >``F*** off and die'' messages to random IDs rather upsetting occasional >users already fearful of the computer systems---one mistake was to >forward one to me and I unkindly forwarded it without comment to the >head of department). He was, thank goodness, eventually expelled for >this and other clever and witty uses of our computing systems. This sounds really familiar. I was working as an operator a while back, where this company had a Data General system, with hundreds of terminals, and two printers, and about 40 different forms, depending on what was printed, so our job was to route the printing, change paper and such. We'd get rushes at lunch and about 4:00, so we were often bored. My boss said "Why don't you learn the system, then?" One of my discoveries was the built-in mail system, which I quickly started using to send clever (I thought) stuff, like beeps, text inversions, and, my favorite, clear-screens. They didn't hurt anything the person was working on, just made it look that way. And I restricted the joke to people that I worked with, operators and programmers, not general users. I was punished for this in two ways: Our sysop wrote a program that simulated a disk-crash, just for me, and my boss suggested I had learned the system enough, and should switch to COBOL :-) I know this isn't at all appropriate for this group, but I also don't think 5000+ lines about anon. posters are, either. So, if you have a problem, I'll just send it anonymously next time :-) >..The even more pernicious thing about unpleasant mail and news is that >the *recipients* pay for it. I particularly don't want to pay postage >on a large parcel arriving and discover that horse's head with attached >rude note. This kind of abuse does have solutions, for both hard-mail and E-mail. kill-files, complaints to whoever runs the show, legal prosecution, as well as the kind of thing Damon did above. One response to the volume-abuse referred to in another post is to re-forward every message you get from the offender right back at them, with additional text attached, and delete what you got, all automatically. Whose mailer is bigger, right? Besides, stopping anon. messages won't solve these problems. There are those that will abuse things anyway, or the really determined types that have figured out how to attribute their messages to others. -Tommy Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom McWilliams | 517-355-2178 (work) \\ Inhale to the Chief! 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu | 336-9591 (hm)\\ Zonker Harris in 1996! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 199 ------------------------------